Cumulus Support

Hello,

I am considering a new weather station since my trusted Weathereye WEA22 is in need of early retirement and am very interested in the Davis Vantage PRO 2. In order to continue to use the Cumuls software I understand I need to purchase a Data Logger #6150USB. This Data Logger product seems very expensive and has left me wondering if there is an alternate solution.

I understand that the Data Logger records data even when the PC is not connected which is integral functionality in the Weathereye. Am I missing something and does this provide other functionality?

Regards

Andrew

Generally it is recommended that the serial version be purchased rather than the USB version as they seem to be more reliable even when used with an FTDI chipset serial to USB adapter. Without such an interface you won't get data out of the station. The Davis interface units have a memory module and log the station data so if the PC is off the data is not lost and can be downloaded later.

There are alternatives at around US$50 if you buy one rather than making your own. I use an alternative myself on a Vue and it works well.

The Davis interface/Logger also includes all the stuff to talk to their website and the weatherlink software which most appear not to use preferring Cumulus or other alternatives. So when you go the Davis way you spend a lot of money for stuff you don't use.

Unfortunately it seems Davis has moved to block the use of alternative interfaces as the stations and loggers they have been suppliying for a while now test for Davis gear and won't work with non Davis interface/loggers.

Have a read of this post on wxforum.net http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=17198.0

BCJKiwi wrote:The Davis interface/Logger also includes all the stuff to talk to their website

Do you mean weatherlink.com? Isn't this just with IP loggers? I don't think that comes as standard with serial or USB loggers, even now. The only thing that came with mine that I don't use regularly is the software, and even that is useful sometimes (e.g. setting the logger interval).

I agree with the comments posted and would also add this. WeatherLink does allow me to upload historical readings to WUnderground should Cumulus go offline for any reason. In my case it's because the wireless connection has 'broken' and it may be several hours before I can get home to fix it.

Regarding USB vs Serial I have the VP2 USB version and have had no problems whatsoever connecting to a netbook for 3.5 years. The connection is configured as serial in Cumulus but the physical connection is USB.

BCJKiwi wrote:Unfortunately it seems Davis has moved to block the use of alternative interfaces as the stations and loggers they have been suppliying for a while now test for Davis gear and won't work with non Davis interface/loggers.

If I may just stop by briefly with an update:

This quote is correct.

The latest release of consoles have revised Mfg Code numbers (now all start with 2 letters not one, eg 'AA' or 'MB') and must all be fitted with recent logger, manufactured since (roughly) mid-2011 and have F/W revision v3.00 (which is not currently a downloadable version and cannot in any event be loaded into older consoles). Otherwise the console ticker will show an 'Incompatible logger' error. These later models (both station and logger) can be identified by a green dot on the outer packaging (as well as from the Mfg code values, if you know exactly what to look for).

In the UK, all recent Vue stock has been to the green dot standard. But we've yet to see any 'green dot' wireless VP2 units. (There will be differences in when the change was made on the manufacturing line and on the buffer stocks that Davis hold at the factory for different products.) But we're just starting to see a few 'green dot' cabled VP2 stations.

Re uploads to weatherlink.com: v6 of the WL software has introduced the capability to do these uploads even for serial/USB loggers, but subject to an annual fee. For the record (I appreciate that it probably won't interest anyone here, except perhaps a few that might be running both Cumulus and WL via VVP) this option isn't yet available in the UK because the details of how the annual subscriptions are to be administered hasn't been finalised yet. Hopefully Davis will clarify this issue to the relevant dealers in the next few weeks.

prodata wrote:Re uploads to weatherlink.com: v6 of the WL software has introduced the capability to do these uploads even for serial/USB loggers, but subject to an annual fee. For the record (I appreciate that it probably won't interest anyone here, except perhaps a few that might be running both Cumulus and WL via VVP) this option isn't yet available in the UK because the details of how the annual subscriptions are to be administered hasn't been finalised yet. Hopefully Davis will clarify this issue to the relevant dealers in the next few weeks.

Hi John,

I run both WL and Cumulus via VVP and would consider uploading my data but I refuse to pay for the 'privilege'. I cannot understand why Davis charge for this service when so many others - WU, PWS and APRSWXNET happily accept it for nothing. What planet are Davis on?

Steve, you are correct as usual, the IP version is required for automatic sending to the Davis website (and I believe one or two others now). But see Prodata's cross post for an update!
The Weatherlink software can (or could) be downloaded from their website for free.
I have a copy I have never installed.
I am also advised this works fine with the clone interface/loggers.
You can set any of the stuff on the console through a clone interface/logger using telnet or similar - you just have to know what to send but that is well documented.
There is also the issue if you need to get your older unit serviced and it comes back with a new board which makes your clone interface non-functional. Davis have advised that in this instance they will replace your Davis interface/logger with a new one but that won't solve the problem of an incompatible clone logger.

So the message for Andrew is:-
If you want to to go the Davis station way and ensure you have full compatibility with current models from Davis then you should purchase the Davis interface.

RayProudfoot wrote:I cannot understand why Davis charge for this service when so many others - WU, PWS and APRSWXNET happily accept it for nothing.

Don't know Ray, I can't really answer for Davis. But I would guess that their response would be along the lines:

We have invested a substantial amount in creating a high performance and highly resilient server environment at weatherlink.com (which I understand is very much the case). Most of the other 10000 users (and rising rapidly) effectively pay for ongoing support of this service - but in terms of upfront payment built into the IP logger price and into the imminent Connect products - and so it's only reasonable for regular WL users who wish to use the service to make a comparable contribution.

The wl.com service is not supported by advertising at all and clearly Davis see it as a commercial offering and so they're comfortable making it a subscription product. I'm not sure there are any rights and wrongs here. For users of regular serial/USB loggers, WL uploads to wl.com are purely optional and voluntary and many/most people possibly won't use this feature. Looking at it another way, why should those reglar WL users who don't want the uploads to wl.com subsidise those that do? The money to pay for the servers etc has to come from somewhere and so if wl.com was free then the prices of the stations, loggers etc would have to rise at least a little to cover the extra costs.

Thanks for your view on this John. The obvious answer is to invite advertisers to cover the costs. This has been the case at WU and those that do upload there have an advert-free subscription.

Imagine a newspaper that didn't have any adverts but was 3 times more expensive than its competitors. It wouldn't last 5 minutes. I'm surprised that so many Davis owners are happy to pay for the service. Each to their own I suppose. And as you say at least those who don't provide data are not subsidising the costs.

Personally, I hate online ads with a vengeance. Actually, one or two small static ones on a page I can live with, but online advertising seems to need to be ever larger and more intrusive and especially to use either Flash animation or video in order for it to be successful. But yes you could give users an option I suppose of subscription or ads.

There's another way I can see this developing, more akin to shareware-type software. When there's a further revision to wl.com (new features etc) there might be the possibility of a split service, ie a basic service that was free (and maybe supported by a few ads) and then a subscription-only full-fat service.

(Sorry Steve this has ventured rather OT from Cumulus.)

I'm not a great lover of them either John and yes, they are more intrusive especially on certain newspaper sites. The compromise you suggested is one way out for Davis. I won't hold my breath on them adopting it though.

My apologies too for the thread drift.

Hi Andrew,
The Davis system is more costly compared to many others but the value is in the quality. If, like in many of the lower cost weather stations, the data logger was included in the basic Davis unit cost then the Davis selling cost would be even greater for everyone whether they wanted the stand-alone ISS/Console or the full computer/internet connection option. Their current business model provides each user a price for their preference of unit, albeit at a much higher cost than much of the competition. And if you didn't know, the data logger comes with free software

Good luck on your search, and enjoy,

Paul

Hello,

Thanks for the advice all, I'll continue the investigation.

Regards

Andrew

PaulMy wrote:The Davis system is more costly compared to many others but the value is in the quality...

This prompts just a couple of follow-up comments.

Yes, the Davis systems are substantially more costly than for example the cheapest of the Fine Offset OEM products, but it is all relative. There are several other well-known makes of weather station that cost 10 times as much even as a Davis system. And if the (UK) Met Office were setting up a new green-field, high-end, observation station then they would probably be looking at a price-tag in the region of £20-50K, ie up to 100x that of a cheaper Davis system. And, inevitably, to a first approximation, you get what you pay for.

Second, remember that, in the UK, Davis stations are commonly available as a bundle with the Weatherlink data logger, and so in practice the logger can be bought at something like half its list price when included in a bundle.