Cumulus Support

A little while ago I noticed that Highcharts appeared to have changed their licensing terms.

When Cumulus started using Highcharts it was free to use for non-commercial applications which includes most of our hobby web sites.

I contacted Highcharts about this and after a number of emails back and forth the result is:

• Cumulus MX itself does not require a licence as it is free and open source - normally applications would require an OEM licence
• You, the end users do each require a licence. Most of you will qualify for a free Personal Use licence.

The Personal Use licence is valid for one year and must then be renewed. It also states that you can only use the version of Highcharts that the licence covers when it is issued. I'm not sure how that will work!

This situation is very unsatisfactory to say the least.

I see that we have three ways forward with this:

1. Carry on as we are, and all users of Cumulus MX must apply for personal licences
2. Investigate the possibility of using an old version of Highcharts that was covered by the old licensing terms. I have no idea if this is possible, and if the old terms allowed Highcharts to retrospectively apply the new terms to old versions.
3. Replace Highcharts with another charting product that does allow free usage. This would potentially be a huge piece of work.

Regarding point 2 above, do we have anyone with knowledge of licensing terms who could help see if this a possibility?

Thats annoying to say the least.

I'm guessing even if it is free to license, they want users details, as User information is worth $$$$.

if we do get a Free personal license and have to renew it, I guess this is only for users with their own website. not sure what the percentage of CMX users run their own website and use highcharts.

Personally it maybe an inconvenience to apply for a highchart license but maybe it would be easier that way for now, until an alternative is found?

maybe we can apply for a Personal Perpetual license? A onetime only application? Though looking at the non-commercial its listed as a yearly license for the version we are using.

ConligWX wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 1:31 pm if we do get a Free personal license and have to renew it, I guess this is only for users with their own website. not sure what the percentage of CMX users run their own website and use highcharts.

Personally it maybe an inconvenience to apply for a highchart license but maybe it would be easier that way for now, until an alternative is found?

maybe we can apply for a Personal Perptual license? A onetime only application?

The use of Highcharts in dashboard also requires a licence, though in practice how would they know? And I cannot see them pursuing single user instances.

I don't think HC do a personal perpetual licence.

mcrossley wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 1:46 pm
The use of Highcharts in dashboard also requires a licence, though in practice how would they know? And I cannot see them pursuing single user instances.

I don't think HC do a personal perpetual licence.

so what version of HC are we using on our websites as of cmx v3.28.6 or v4.0.0 build 4019? and is it core or dashboard we physically use?

10.3.3 stock ??

yeah looks like non-commercial is yearly full stop.

Thanks for the post. It is a very awkward action of HighCharts.

They obviously go for the money - that in itself is OK - but they ignore the parties which always have worked on their non-commercial license. It is a question if that holds in the European Economic Space (under which I believe they work as Norwegians).

Another point is that if they change license so easy now, they may as well do that tomorrow and ask all users a fee, including the CMX users (and derivatives like the templates and like CUtils). I think the chance they will ask a fee in (near) future is pretty high once they taste money. On the other hand: a large fee will drive individuals away and a small fee will have lots of overhead.

So I see the following steps ahead:

1. I think the first step is to try to get somebody who knows what he is talking about - competence in license law - who is prepared to negotiate with Highcharts beyond some marketing lady who just does her job. And not only that but check if HC does a legal thing with this action.
2. If that does not work out I think the resentful option is to rewrite in another charting tool. Indeed a lot of work but from what I have seen it can be done and the guarantees such tool remains free are pretty good.

NOTE: CUtils already has a feature to select the Highcharts version of choice. I suppose that could be taken by any tool including CMX. Piece of cake so that is not the problem. I'd say we can do with version 10 and let HC race to the future with dashboards etc,.. We could also think of a stripped version of HC where functionality is limited, just what we need. With a specific version nr we could have that selected.

Negotiation is key here. With a (small) group of developers as counsel.

HCs GPT states ALL versions need a license. not sure if this is lawful to change licensing on versions that did not require a license previously.

ConligWX wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 2:37 pm HCs GPT states ALL versions need a license. not sure if this is lawful to change licensing on versions that did not require a license previously.

If we look at copyright (not the same but related) it is not lawful. You can not change copyright backward.
I would assume similar for licensing.

HansR wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 2:41 pm

ConligWX wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 2:37 pm HCs GPT states ALL versions need a license. not sure if this is lawful to change licensing on versions that did not require a license previously.

If we look at copyright (not the same but related) it is not lawful. You can not change copyright backward.
I would assume similar for licensing.

To make things even more complicated, probably there are noteworthy differences in local laws between countries.

One case from near past comes to my mind. Oracle changed Java licensing so that JRE and JDK changed from free to needing a licence beginning from version x. As far as I know, you could still use the old versions for free, but practically it is not an option regarding security issues and compatibility.

Basically I think that the lawful usage of the older versions depends on the licence terms that they had when they were made public. If it would clearly state free use without timely limitations and would not include a right to ”revoke” the free usage, then I can’t see how they could change it later. But probably they had a bunch of lawyers that have written licence terms so that they can change the terms and pricing later.

Point is we do not need guessing, we need somebody competent to work the problem.

How would the know if you use the dashboard, just because CMX provides it you do not have to use it and therefore do not need a license because the highcharts code is not executed on your PC outside of CMX.

They can take a running jump as far as I am concerned. I was going to use it on my website but now will start converting my WD PHP graphs to use the CMX data as input.

Stuart

Hmm

I saw this topic first raised a week or so ago and thought that it would be something that would not go away.

The personal non commercial licence seems to be the way forward at the moment especially since it is currently free. I really think that we have a personal product that benefits from the highcharts expertise and as with most things internet these days the user has to accept the fact that the days of free at the point of use are becoming increasingly unusual with more and more advertising creeping in.

I have put in a personal non commercial application and will let you know if this causes any problems.

HansR wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 3:57 pm Point is we do not need guessing, we need somebody competent to work the problem.

Agreed. But I still have to clarify, that a few years ago I was managing Microsoft licensing for 10k users educational organization, so I would say my guesses are at least a bit educated.

SamiS wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 4:42 pm

HansR wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 3:57 pm Point is we do not need guessing, we need somebody competent to work the problem.

Agreed. But I still have to clarify, that a few years ago I was managing Microsoft licensing for 10k users educational organization, so I would say my guesses are at least a bit educated.

You just put yourself forward as the competent negotiator we need

HansR wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 4:52 pm You just put yourself forward as the competent negotiator we need

Unfortunately handling MS EES is its own very complicated world, and more focused on how to calculate the needed amounts regarding users, cpu sockets, installed products, etc. So my focus was not in the legal side, and therefore unable to help more.

HansR wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 2:41 pm

ConligWX wrote: ↑Sat 06 Apr 2024 2:37 pm HCs GPT states ALL versions need a license. not sure if this is lawful to change licensing on versions that did not require a license previously.

If we look at copyright (not the same but related) it is not lawful. You can not change copyright backward.
I would assume similar for licensing.

indeed. imagine Micro$oft now changes the license fee, but say anyone with an existing license needs a new license for their older software. lol

does anyone know when the change took place regarding registering for a license?