Snow Observation Recording

[KF0KFL-13]

I would like to recommend a feature the would support inputting and viewing snow observations.
As a CWOP Snow Observer I input my snow observations manually. I would like to see a similiar option to input data into Cumulux MX that can be recorded and viewed or displayed
( https://madis-data.ncep.noaa.gov/sample_snow_form.html )

Unfortunately the information I submit to CWOP is not retrievable for viewing, I know the weather diary has snow input option but doesn't seem very functional.

If this feature is implemented, It would be nice to see the snowfall in the last 24 hours feed out to the wxnow.txt file as well. After looking over the APRS weather report format I see that is an option.


Thanks in Advance!

[PaulMy]

Hi,
I don't input snow to CWOP but do it to CoCoRaHS. I then also manually enter it in CMX Diary. Using DB Browser for SQLite I can open to view the data but haven't learnt how to extract it for charts, etc. so using a more usable friendly Excel http://www.komokaweather.com/weather/snowfall-log.pdf

I tried to use this script viewtopic.php?p=171408&hilit=snow+log#p171408 but couldn't make it work for me.

Enjoy,
Paul

[HansR]

I think i see some work for CUtils here

[PaulMy]

I think i see some work for CUtils here

[KF0KFL-13]

I think i see some work for CUtils here

What is CUtils?

- John

[HansR]

I think i see some work for CUtils here

What is CUtils?

- John

A tool on top of CMX to generate a website or individual modules: viewtopic.php?t=17998

[Dador]

I admit that it would be a nice option if Cutils drew snow charts based on e.g. the diary.db file

[HansR]

I admit that it would be a nice option if Cutils drew snow charts based on e.g. the diary.db file

I announce the winter module here, not sure what to graph or display but something will be shown. I don't know when though , can't take on major things until after the first week of januari.

And btw: teherr is no e.g.: it can only be on the basis of the diary as there is no other snow registration in CMX is there?

[PaulMy]

it can only be on the basis of the diary as there is no other snow registration in CMX is there?

Correct, and unfortunately the Diary DB only has this data that is carried forward from original Cumulus Weather Diary and Snow Index to show the EWSI Index:
1. Selected date:
2. Comments: {I enter such as "Some light rain during the day, with 1 cm snow overnight = 1.6 mm SWE (SnowWaterEquivalent after melting the snow)}
3. Snow Falling: Tick for Yes, or leave unticked for No {I use the 8:00 am to 8:00 am to indicate if it was snowing during this 24 hour period}
4. Snow Lying: Tick for Yes, or leave unticked for No {I use 8:00 am to indicate how much snow on the ground at that time - I enter in 0.5cm increment}
5. Snow Depth (cm): {I enter in 0.5 cm increment but CoCoRaHS asks for 0.1 and this is the accumulation of snowfall that has not yet melted}

Other than in comments there is no place to show how much NEW snow in the 8:00 to 8:00 24 hour period. And 'comments' is free entry so likely can't use it for charts. New snow measurement is quite important as that is the basis for total snow on the surface whereas "snow depth" would be the measurement of all snow but compacted over time, which will be less than the sum of all new snowfalls that is accumulated. For flood control it is important to know what content of moisture is on the frozen ground before spring thawing, so SWE provides that.
I suppose a user could use the Snow Depth for entering new snow during a day but that would then loose the total snow on the ground.

Just providing my personal experience in snowfall and measurement, and I know much of the world doesn't even have one snowfall day in a year..

Enjoy,
Paul

[HansR]

it can only be on the basis of the diary as there is no other snow registration in CMX is there?

Correct, and unfortunately the Diary DB only has this data that is carried forward from original Cumulus Weather Diary and Snow Index to show the EWSI Index:
1. Selected date:
2. Comments: {I enter such as "Some light rain during the day, with 1 cm snow overnight = 1.6 mm SWE (SnowWaterEquivalent after melting the snow)}
3. Snow Falling: Tick for Yes, or leave unticked for No {I use the 8:00 am to 8:00 am to indicate if it was snowing during this 24 hour period}
4. Snow Lying: Tick for Yes, or leave unticked for No {I use 8:00 am to indicate how much snow on the ground at that time - I enter in 0.5cm increment}
5. Snow Depth (cm): {I enter in 0.5 cm increment but CoCoRaHS asks for 0.1 and this is the accumulation of snowfall that has not yet melted}

Other than in comments there is no place to show how much NEW snow in the 8:00 to 8:00 24 hour period. And 'comments' is free entry so likely can't use it for charts. New snow measurement is quite important as that is the basis for total snow on the surface whereas "snow depth" would be the measurement of all snow but compacted over time, which will be less than the sum of all new snowfalls that is accumulated. For flood control it is important to know what content of moisture is on the frozen ground before spring thawing, so SWE provides that.
I suppose a user could use the Snow Depth for entering new snow during a day but that would then loose the total snow on the ground.

Thanks for the specification I am in an area where thinking about snow is not really 'hot' as I can't remember having snow over here for more than a few days and a few centimeters.

If a user takes registration serious on a day by day basis, NEW SNOW could be the "Snow Depth" - "Snow Lying" if Snow Falling is ticked.
But I am not sure.

Just providing my personal experience in snowfall and measurement, and I know much of the world doesn't even have one snowfall day in a year..

Well, it will be a menu choice of course like so many modules. I understand that the stations in Spain would have less requirement although they do get snow and sometimes even a lot. But this registration is only useful in real snowy areas like yours.

Let's say I'll contact you - and possibly other volunteers - when I start working on this to get an idea about the first version of the 'Winter' module. For the southern hemisphere it would be similar but the winter months would be around june/july.

[HansR]

Hi @Paul, I just started some work on the snow reporting (maybe combining it with some other winter charts). As we do not have snow over here, I have no entry in the diary. Can you post me yours so I have something to play with? Thanks. PM, email or in the thread... it's all OK.

[PaulMy]

Hi Hans and thanks,
Attached is the diary.db zip which has data from 2019-01-02 when Mark added that to CMX to current (Mar 31, 2024) which I can open with DB Browser for SQLite.
I also have attached the log.xml zip from my Cumulus1 going back from 2008-11-21 to current (Mar 31, 2024) and to me this looks like a more difficult format as when an update or correction was done it leaves the original and adds a new line and these can then be in an out of date order.

If anything else needed, just shout.

Enjoy,
Paul

[HansR]

Thanks Paul.

It'll be slow progress - currently I am doing things with unwilling RelVNC to get the db viewer operational and SQLite has to be done from the ground up as it is currently not in Utils. And I have been out 5 weeks.... djee that gives a backlog on all activities

Anyway, I'll let you know here when something comes out of it.

[HansR]

Hi @Paul and @Mark,

I've been looking at the diary and I wonder : the snow falling and lying is a tick giving a value 1 or 0 in the database (true or false) while you use the comment field for the amount of new snow.

Wouldn't it be better to have the comment really be free (and therefore useless from a tabling/charting point of view) i.e. put the value of the fresh snow in snow falling and the snow depth (which would be the snow lying therefore lying can be removed). That would give only two numbers per day.

The melt and compression of the snow lying would express itself through the figure of the snow depth assuming that would be noted daily.

So measuring at midnight (it surprises me no time is noted which makes it impossible to make multiple observations per day) would give the snow depth and the fresh snow of that day in two distinct numbers. The total layer of snow would be the sum of both.

The comment field can not be handled. The lying and falling fields do not really give info.
Although Paul files reports, that is impossible to automate.

So my suggestion is a modification of the snow registration database.
Would that be an idea?

[freddie]

Not commenting on your suggestion, but I think snow depth is typically measured at 9h.