Cumulus Support

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:02 pm @water01, how come your station data only goes back to early February? You’ve been around a lot longer than that.

True but I moved from on top of the Mendips to Burnham-on-Sea, old site and data is archived for historic purposes. There is a great deal of difference between on top of hill 640ft up and a mile from the sea at 16ft up both weather wise and walking wise!!

water01 wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:09 pm True but I moved from on top of the Mendips to Burnham-on-Sea, old site and data is archived for historic purposes. There is a great deal of difference between on top of hill 640ft up and a mile from the sea at 16ft up both weather wise and walking wise!!

Ah so you moved home. Bugger. Lots of data unavailable to your visitors when that happens. You’re certainly recording some warm temperatures down there. 30°C in April is rare.

water01 wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:06 pm

It’s SQL Database driven I believe.

Common misconception. It has MySQL built in if you wish to use it but other than that it's file structure is exactly the same as Cumulus 1 hence why it is so easy to move your data from one program to the other. All the text files exist and can be backed up as simply as you do today.

What you are missing are all the updates that Mark is adding to CumulusMX making it look like a 2020 program e.g. "feels like" etc. There are not many features that were in Cumulus 1 that are not in CumulsMX today (not true in its early days) and there are a great deal more features in CumulusMX that are not in Cumulus 1 (e.g. newer weather stations are supported etc.).

So you’re telling me MX can read text files that are formatted exactly the same as those generated by Cumulus 1? Interesting. But looking at your website I don’t see anything I need that much to go through the disruption of a switch.

I also run a special program only available to XP users that allow me to run two other programs as well as Cumulus. VirtualVP. I also run WeatherLink and VP Live which keeps the time synced. I would lose that capability if I moved away from XP.

Am I correct in thinking you host your own site via a Windows NT computer?

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:14 pm

water01 wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:09 pm True but I moved from on top of the Mendips to Burnham-on-Sea, old site and data is archived for historic purposes. There is a great deal of difference between on top of hill 640ft up and a mile from the sea at 16ft up both weather wise and walking wise!!

Ah so you moved home. Bugger. Lots of data unavailable to your visitors when that happens. You’re certainly recording some warm temperatures down there. 30°C in April is rare.

I have to fix that. I am getting radiated heat off the walls of the house and it is adding about 5C to my temps during very sunny days. My options to mount it elsewhere are limited since we have a fairly small garden, so I going to try and build a radiation shield when I can get out and buy some bits!! sfws shared some easily built ideas with bits from Screwfix and Wickes I think. Until then think peak temps 5C less, 25C was about right on the day.

Am I correct in thinking you host your own site via a Windows NT computer?

No I use TSOhosts to host the site but I get a fair bit of flexibility on how my space is run.

The Windows NT bit is strange as it running Windows 10 but the Web Tag from Cumulus MX returns Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0. Not sure where it gets that from as winver says Windows 10 Pro Version 1909!!

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 9:58 pm Things tend to fail when they are turned off and on. I do that very rarely.

That's the oldest myth in the book regarding computer hardware. Your hard drive has components moving all of the time, they can and eventually will fail from just being on permanently. If that happens, you're stuffed!

re CMX; you don't need SQL databases for it and you don't need 'mono' if you're using it on a windows machine.

I bought a Beelink mini PC (about the same size as Pi in a case) which has windows 10 installed on an SSD (no moving parts). It was cheap, pretty fast and uses a tiny amount of power for a windows based machine.

No one is trying to push you on to CMX, but if it was me, i'd take a small step in to the future.

My technical knowledge in computing is limited re all this, so I am prepared to be shot down, but I think the following points are worth making.

water01 wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 7:57 pm sometime Microsoft is going to withdraw the .NET version that Cumulus 1 relies on

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 9:27 pm The .NET version in use on my netbook has remained unchanged for years. XP hasn’t been updated in years. Even if Microsoft withdrew support for .NET how would that affect my website?

WRONG - C1 does not use .NET (see below about .NET and Mono), it used Delphi for development; that is why the specifications for month, am/pm etc. changed.
As far as I know C1 is not dependent on any extra software in the way MX is in terms of running C1. Because C1 needed a special development environment it became harder to edit it, and as its source was never released, support is difficult.

As for Mono/.NET issues; these are very much related, they both provide a similar functionality/environment for programs like MX to use, but Mono is Open Source and works across multiple environments, in contrast .NET is propriety and updates are only specific to latest Windows version.

water01 wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:35 pm the Web Tag from Cumulus MX returns Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0. Not sure where it gets that from as winver says Windows 10 Pro Version 1909!!

Please see Steve Loft's explanation when W10 was first released, I can't find it, but from memory NT is just a component, so is unrelated to the more general operating system version. Similarly, David, you probably have a 64 bit window machine, but it retains some 32 bit capability and that might be unchanged from an older version.

water01 wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 7:57 pm you had better have good backups

Agreed. But I would add, those backups need to be on a local device (or cloud) that you will continue to be able to access when your netbook stops working. As Mapantz says, if you are storing backups on normal hard drives, they can fail at any time. In my Cumulus 1 lifetime, I had a few hard disc failures, and always on the day the next backup was supposed to happen!

Read about the struggle the National Records Office in UK had with digital matter created by computers that are no longer manufactured, or stored by specifications that have been replaced by new ones. Okay old film and old paper deteriorate, but over a longer timescale than that in which digital environment changes.

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:22 pm So you’re telling me MX can read text files that are formatted exactly the same as those generated by Cumulus 1? Interesting. But looking at your website I don’t see anything I need that much to go through the disruption of a switch.

It is true that although MX uses different formatting when it writes to log files, it has been designed so it can read both C1 formats and MX formats.

Ray, I stick by what I said before, as long as you are able to run C1, then it will do all you need.

Is it difficult to change, well see what you think after you read how I did it at https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Cumulus_MX#Wh ... Install_MX. The advantages of MX (apart from it having more support, that you don't need if you stick to what you know) are that it can do so much more than just produce the standard web site, for example it retains the "this month" and "this year" data for past months as files. It adds many extra web tags, so you have more information available, if you want to use it.

You can add a database to C1 to do lots of extra queries much faster (your data summary page and other presentations can retrieve from a database faster than from files like dayfile.txt). One perk of in MX is that although the initial implementation of databases in terms of having relevant software and access is just the same, updating (of standard tables) can be achieved just by clicking a few buttons.

MX: Time is on our side

Mapantz wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:41 pm
That's the oldest myth in the book regarding computer hardware. Your hard drive has components moving all of the time, they can and eventually will fail from just being on permanently. If that happens, you're stuffed!

In 28 years of owning PCs I've never lost a HDD. Not all of them fail. And the data is backed up every 6 hours to a NAS box running RAID 1 so that's about as secure as I can get. I would hope you would credit me with having enough intelligence to backup my data.

Mapantz wrote: ↑Tue 05 May 2020 10:41 pmI bought a Beelink mini PC (about the same size as Pi in a case) which has windows 10 installed on an SSD (no moving parts). It was cheap, pretty fast and uses a tiny amount of power for a windows based machine.

No one is trying to push you on to CMX, but if it was me, i'd take a small step in to the future.

The lid on my NC10 is closed except for a check every few days. Power consumption is minimal. I have solar panels so the netbook is running for zero cost except at night. I have a spare laptop running W7 that will come into play should the NC10 fail. I would then look to get another netbook once the lockdown ends. I have no desire whatsoever to move to MX. Cumulus is stable, the OS is stable. I'm happy with what C1 gives me.

Fair enough Ray, as was said no one is pressuring you to change, but if you have solar panels and have any home automation then the MQTT interface may change your mind!!

sfws wrote: ↑Wed 06 May 2020 5:28 am As far as I know C1 is not dependent on any extra software in the way MX is in terms of running C1. Because C1 needed a special development environment it became harder to edit it, and as its source was never released, support is difficult.

Ray, I stick by what I said before, as long as you are able to run C1, then it will do all you need.
The advantages of MX (apart from it having more support, that you don't need if you stick to what you know) are that it can do so much more than just produce the standard web site, for example it retains the "this month" and "this year" data for past months as files. It adds many extra web tags, so you have more information available, if you want to use it.

You can add a database to C1 to do lots of extra queries much faster (your data summary page and other presentations can retrieve from a database faster than from files like dayfile.txt). One perk of in MX is that although the initial implementation of databases in terms of having relevant software and access is just the same, updating (of standard tables) can be achieved just by clicking a few buttons.

I suspected C1 didn't rely on any other software. It's remained untouched for a very long time. I've made changes to my web pages and I'm happy with what they show. The Data Summary was the most recent addition and that looks the same whether C1 or MX is used.

I import dayfile.txt into an Access database where I can view many different types of info. It also ensures any dodgy data will be immediately obvious. Not available to website visitors of course but most of them just want basic info. One day I might change but not now.

The attached screenshot shows how powerful Access can be. Over 120 separate queries or VB code to produce this from dayfile.txt. I have other queries too which are very handy like driest and wettest months by average rainfall. JUne 2018 driest with just 8% and February 2020 wettest with 320%.

My surprise increases with every comment here.

Around 1995 I worked in a project group for a warehouse management system, which originally was built around 1970 with a huge 'control' display of little lamps in white lines showing where the pallets on the conveyor belts were, where the sensors, the switches etc ... were and what their status was. A bit like in a 'James Bond / Spectre' villain control room context.

The end of the song was, that we simulated a situation from 1970 in 1995. It cost a lot of money and of course it worked. But no doubt it has now been replaced by a series of monitors with beautiful graphic displays in a real clean control room.

That project was first to replace their PDP-11 [of which I still have a never used core memory board of 32K which cost $30.000 in 1970, given to me as a souvenir] but lack of vision cost them a lot of money. Endless desire to preserve without understanding progress.

Be careful with conservatism, although difficult for the British to understand, there are limits to it. There is always an end to equipment, in the computer world in 10 years, in PC ecology, already is a lot. In industrial computer ecology, twenty years is really the time to look further. Change will come and if you don't anticipate you will be overtaken.

I don't know your age, but love for an XP machine is irrational.

HansR wrote: ↑Wed 06 May 2020 12:22 pm I don't know your age, but love for an XP machine is irrational.

I never said I loved it but I will not dispose of something that works perfectly well. I never use it except to check it can connect to the internet after a very occasional reboot. Zero possibility of it being hacked. Data is backed up. I have a spare should it ever be needed. I don't believe in this throw-away society.

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Wed 06 May 2020 12:35 pm I never said I loved it

OK, interpretation.

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Wed 06 May 2020 12:35 pm but I will not dispose of something that works perfectly well.

I can live with that, but be prepared. Even a T-Ford which can still run, cannot be used on a continuous basis any more.

RayProudfoot wrote: ↑Wed 06 May 2020 12:35 pm I never use it except to check it can connect to the internet after a very occasional reboot. Zero possibility of it being hacked. Data is backed up. I have a spare should it ever be needed. I don't believe in this throw-away society.

OK. Valid.

HansR wrote: ↑Wed 06 May 2020 12:22 pm That project was first to replace their PDP-11 [of which I still have a never used core memory board of 32K which cost $30.000 in 1970, given to me as a souvenir] but lack of vision cost them a lot of money.

Irrelevant hijack, but I did some work at a bank only about 10 years ago that was still running PDP-11 code! Albeit in an emulator, but still