Global warming, not climate change.

[mcrossley]

I would have a heat pump if the ROI was a reasonable time scale - and it's getting there. Having to have super insulated homes and new larger radiators to run a heat pump is a myth. I already run my gas boiler heating flow temperature below what what modern heat pumps can achieve (55°C) and the house is more than warm enough. The condensing boiler is more efficient at that lower temperature too. You do have to make some adjustments when running a heat pump (as running gas at lower temperatures to shine extent). You run out longer at lower temperatures. I have found the house is more comfortable doing that anyway.

We already run an EV, that was a no-brainer for us. It now costs us 1.2p per mile for the vast majority of our miles, and up to next year there has been no car tax either - cheap motoring. We would not go back to a petrol/diesel. Plus they are so nice to drive!

Guilty secret, I do still have a petrol sports car in the garage for nice weekends, it only did 800 miles last year though. But it did go up in value - shhh!

[Nossie]

I'm personally caught in a few compromises and I'm not sure of the way forward.

I recently inherited a house in the southwest of Scotland. It has a gas boiler from the early '90s—not one of those "fancy" combi-boilers that give you instant hot water at the press of a button. However, it has so far kept going strong, built to last and all that.

For a while, I worked for E.ON, so I'm not completely clueless in the energy market, but in some ways, it creates more questions than answers. For example, I still have a dumb gas meter because of all the equipment that was incompatible with each other (British Gas installing hot shoes, etc.), COVID, and then the recent conflict. Only recently have I really been in a position to choose a provider and have SMETS 2 meters installed that ideally will remain smart when switching providers (I'm thinking of going with Octopus). I'm quite wary of energy contracts. With modern forecasting and calculation, the provider has a much better idea of what will happen in the next 6 - 12 months, and so, rather than banking on an investment—unless WW3 breaks out and the cost of standing charges already multiplying—I'm not sure of any true saving. This is a bit of a digression, but I just wanted to provide some context.

Politics aside, the Scottish government a few years ago promised a ban on new gas boilers within a few years—they have not followed through with this. New gas boilers themselves only have a warranty of 10 years, and 8 if you get one fitted through a government scheme—I'm not sure what that implies. As part of inheriting the estate, I have also come into some funds that will ultimately be used to upgrade the heating system—and it is badly needed. Our heating/water used to come on 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours at night in the winter. Our house is quite well insulated; my dad shied away from cavity insulation (for good reason) and insulated most of the loft, etc., with polystyrene. We do have a multifuel burner, but since this is currently fashionable, the cost of seasoned wood is quite eye-watering too.

I don't have bottomless funds, but I would consider all options. Electricity alone concerns me due to previous governments' inability to fund the future; the UK is in a bit of a generation crisis. Environmental tax aside—everybody wants an electric car. Let's say everyone had an electric car tomorrow—due to supply and demand, where do you think electricity costs would go? I would imagine only up—and relying on a single source is concerning.

So, what would supplement this? Solar panels—with batteries, of course... in Scotland. Would I really get any return on investment in this? I realize modern solar panels generate electricity even on dull days; however, the orientation of the property is not favorable and getting the energy needed most, in the winter, is questionable.

What about heat pumps? In an ideal world, I would fit a ground source heat pump—dig up my backyard's lawn, submerge the pipes, and have good enough heating in the winter. These are very expensive to buy and almost as expensive to install.

Air source heat pumps? I imagine they can be good in some climates. However, below -5°C, they seriously start losing efficiency, and that temperature is not too uncommon in this area.

I'm still waiting on said funds coming through, but even then I feel stuck in place - would spending 30k on a ground source heatpump be beyond economic repair in 20 years? until I make a decision, I'll still be throwing money into the pit that is my ancient gas boiler haha.

[SamiS]

Air source heat pumps? I imagine they can be good in some climates. However, below -5°C, they seriously start losing efficiency, and that temperature is not too uncommon in this area.

Are they selling only warm climate models in UK? Nordic versions of modern air-heat-pumps are tested to be quite efficient even in -20˚C, at least compared to direct electric heating. I have 12 years old Toshiba still running, and despite it’s age it does provide decent capacity during finnish winter. It has survived running several winters with over -30˚C, but of course it is not very efficient in those conditions. But I reckon it is still safer to let it run than stop it in extreme conditions.

[RayProudfoot]

I’ve had my Worcester Bosch gas boiler since 2006. It’s just had its annual service and the engineer told me it’s still in great condition. Higher quality apparently than modern boilers made by the same company. Thermostatic valves replaced throughout the house as the originals were beginning to fail.

On the 24th of each month I supply gas & electricity meter readings to Octopus. That way I can put the data into a spreadsheet and analyse my usage. I flatly refuse to have a smart meter as they’re for the benefit of the supplier, not the consumer. The constant push to get one is irritating.

I had solar panels installed the year after I retired and get a good FIT rate. I’m about to break even 11 years into a 20 year contract.

My 2007 Honda Civic petrol car has just been serviced and reported as being in top condition. Maybe being garaged helps. My annual mileage is <2,000.

Those of us over retirement age not in receipt of benefits will not be getting financial help from our government towards our winter fuel bills. I can cope, many will struggle. We’ve had it since 2009 irrespective of income.

I consider my carbon footprint to be tiny so I hope I can keep my gas boiler and petrol car for as long as I wish. I am considering a full hybrid though.

In a week I’ll post my temperature trends for the last few months. As things stand temps remain very close to those expected. Rainfall is down on 2023 but that’s no surprise.

[HansR]

I flatly refuse to have a smart meter as they’re for the benefit of the supplier, not the consumer. The constant push to get one is irritating.

There is also an advantage: it gives you the possibility to easily analyse your consumption in high resolution. E.g. for me it was an eye-opener that taking a shower was cheaper than washing the dishes (in gas usage for hot water). Since then I only wash the dishes once per week (when no guests).

In a week I’ll post my temperature trends for the last few months. As things stand temps remain very close to those expected. Rainfall is down on 2023 but that’s no surprise.

That has nothing to do with climate, that is such short series it is weather.

[RayProudfoot]

There is also an advantage: it gives you the possibility to easily analyse your consumption in high resolution. E.g. for me it was an eye-opener that taking a shower was cheaper than washing the dishes (in gas usage for hot water). Since then I only wash the dishes once per week (when no guests).

I hand wash my dishes each evening. If you have a dishwasher time to dump it and do them by hand. Compared to the cost of running central heating the energy consumption of these things is pretty small.

That has nothing to do with climate, that is such short series it is weather.

Hmmm, okay. At what point does weather become climate? Five months with such small variations is unique for my station. All marathons begin with a single step.

[HansR]

Hmmm, okay. At what point does weather become climate? Five months with such small variations is unique for my station. All marathons begin with a single step.

T.b.h. when entering a thread on climate it might be useful to at least get yourself informed about the difference between weather and climate.

The Met Office takes 30 years :

Climate is the general weather over a long period. This can include rainfall, temperature, snow or any other weather condition. We usually define a region’s climate over a period of 30 years.

Amateurs like us may use shorter periods to make a point or to indicate an effect which might be visible but we should always maintain the longterm vision of 30 years in sight.

Whatever: variations within a year definitely do not qualify as climate attribute.

[freddie]

Rainfall is down on 2023 but that’s no surprise.

My rainfall for 2024 is well up on 2023. This time last year the total was 587.0. This year it is 858.3. Shows you how local rain is.

[water01]

Although my rainfall is not yet above 2023 if it continues at the current levels for September and October there is every chance it will beat 2023.

[RayProudfoot]

Amateurs like us may use shorter periods to make a point or to indicate an effect which might be visible but we should always maintain the longterm vision of 30 years in sight.

Given I’m unlikely to still be recording in 15 years I’ll use what I’ve got be it relevant or not.

[RayProudfoot]

My rainfall for 2024 is well up on 2023. This time last year the total was 587.0. This year it is 858.3. Shows you how local rain is.

Are you able to extract rainfall day by day and put it into a graph like I did in another topic? I agree rainfall is very localised. Mine is currently around 3” less than the equivalent date last year.

[HansR]

Given I’m unlikely to still be recording in 15 years I’ll use what I’ve got be it relevant or not.

Sure.

Typical feature of a climate denier: purposely pollute discussion and try cause confusion with improper arguments.
Knowingly use irrelevant series in climate discussion and announce beforehand you want to use irrelevant data... bravo, that's a first.
We can't expect everybody to be a scientist but ridiculing yourself and the participants in the discussion is beyond reason.
It's not even funny anymore Ray.

[RayProudfoot]

@HansR, I find your attitude quite condescending and rude. I won’t be replying to you again.

[AndyKF650]

For my input to this discussion, this week I have recorded more rain for the year to date than I have ever recorded. The previous year to date, 25 October 2015 total rainfall was 797.0mm and this year I am up to 805.0mm to date. I know the difference is not a lot but it is a new record for me.

The vagaries of the weather is always a good talking point and it does help to have real local data to back up perceived changes, the news media tend to be very short term in their stats and it needs people like us to put a reality check on them.