Welcome to the Cumulus Support forum.

Latest Cumulus MX V3 release 3.28.5 (build 3282) - 23 February 2024

Cumulus MX V4 beta test release 4.0.0 (build 4017) - 17 March 2024

Legacy Cumulus 1 release v1.9.4 (build 1099) - 28 November 2014 (a patch is available for 1.9.4 build 1099 that extends the date range of drop-down menus to 2030)

Download the Software (Cumulus MX / Cumulus 1 and other related items) from the Wiki

Geiger counter

Discussion of the Cumulusutils tool and website generator.

Moderator: HansR

sfws
Posts: 1183
Joined: Fri 27 Jul 2012 11:29 am
Weather Station: Chas O, Maplin N96FY, N25FR
Operating System: rPi 3B+ with Buster (full)

Re: Geiger counter

Post by sfws »

HansR wrote: Mon 27 Jun 2022 3:56 pm all parts unlabelled
To start you off: All the resistors have coloured rings that indicate their value (and tolerance), the board has positions for resistors labelled R and then a number, while the piece of paper lists the resistor values with what resistor positions use each of those values.
User avatar
HansR
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2012 6:53 am
Weather Station: GW1100 (WS80/WH40)
Operating System: Raspberry OS/Bullseye
Location: Wagenborgen (NL)
Contact:

Re: Geiger counter

Post by HansR »

sfws wrote: Mon 27 Jun 2022 9:21 pm
HansR wrote: Mon 27 Jun 2022 3:56 pm all parts unlabelled
To start you off: All the resistors have coloured rings that indicate their value (and tolerance), the board has positions for resistors labelled R and then a number, while the piece of paper lists the resistor values with what resistor positions use each of those values.
Thanks @sfws. Fortunately I did hobby around in electronics some 'long time ago', 'once there was' years ago, and last year I bought a new soldering iron - for another kit - so I think eventually I will fix this, but my major astonishment is how this is delivered and the fact I pressed the wrong button. :groan:
Hans

https://meteo-wagenborgen.nl
CMX build 4017+ ● RPi 3B+ ● Raspbian Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l ● dotnet 8.0.3
AllyCat
Posts: 1124
Joined: Sat 26 Feb 2011 1:58 pm
Weather Station: Fine Offset 1080/1 & 3080
Operating System: Windows XP SP3
Location: SE London

Re: Geiger counter

Post by AllyCat »

Hi,
HansR wrote: Tue 28 Jun 2022 4:10 am I did hobby around in electronics some 'long time ago',
As the "kit" appears to use fully "Through Hole" components and PCB (i.e. not SMD/Surface Mount), the construction should be quite "easy", but beware a few "gotchas". A low-cost multimeter (Maybe available for less than 10 Euros) would be wise, ideally with a "Continuity Whistle" (rare at that price point) and transistor gain (hFE), now very common. "TO92" style transistor packages don't have a standardised pinout, so check the NPN/PNP gain is well into 2 or 3 (integer) digits, if possible.

Resistor colour "bands" have always had some lack of clarity (e.g. Red/Orange/Brown) and indecision which "end" to read from, but is more difficult with "better than 5%" tolerances now quite common (Red/Brown tolerance and more bands/permutations. :( ). The choke looks quite like an electrolytic capacitor (i.e. black), and the (essential) +/- identification of some electrolytics can be unclear (sometimes + is the longer wire).

Good luck, but feel free to post a few photos if in doubt. :) .

Cheers, Alan.
watsonm
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun 03 Jan 2016 3:39 pm
Weather Station: N96GY -but like Triggers Broom!!
Operating System: Raspberry Pi4 Vers:11 Bullseye
Location: Poundbury, Dorset

Re: Geiger counter

Post by watsonm »

Been using this guy for my stuff.

Has beeper for continuity and also for NCV (Non-Contact Voltage) for finding places to NOT put your nails through walls!!

Was £10.99 in the UK recently

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1
Regards Mike
Image
Raspberry Pi 4 Bullseye
Directly connected : BMP388 pressure sensor. DHT22 For internal Humidity/temp Sensor. PMS5003 Particle Sensor
Wireless connected: 3 (WS2083)Temp TXr's, WH57 Lightning Sensor, FO Solar sensor
User avatar
HansR
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2012 6:53 am
Weather Station: GW1100 (WS80/WH40)
Operating System: Raspberry OS/Bullseye
Location: Wagenborgen (NL)
Contact:

Re: Geiger counter

Post by HansR »

Thanks for all the support guys, It's not my thing but I think I will manage, got the things together...
    20220628_173627.jpg
    20220628_173426.jpg
    You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
    Hans

    https://meteo-wagenborgen.nl
    CMX build 4017+ ● RPi 3B+ ● Raspbian Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l ● dotnet 8.0.3
    User avatar
    HansR
    Posts: 5831
    Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2012 6:53 am
    Weather Station: GW1100 (WS80/WH40)
    Operating System: Raspberry OS/Bullseye
    Location: Wagenborgen (NL)
    Contact:

    Re: Geiger counter

    Post by HansR »

    OK, took me several hours soldering but it is up and running. All measurements inside. The first minutes are in sunlight (behind a window), from minute 4 it is all in shadow. So it is significant lower than with @cortmalaw.
      Schermafbeelding 2022-06-29 181702.jpg
      20220629_181829.jpg
      You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
      Hans

      https://meteo-wagenborgen.nl
      CMX build 4017+ ● RPi 3B+ ● Raspbian Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l ● dotnet 8.0.3
      Phil23
      Posts: 884
      Joined: Sat 16 Jul 2016 11:59 pm
      Weather Station: Davis VP2+ & GW1000 (Standalone)
      Operating System: Win10 Pro / rPi Buster
      Location: Australia

      Re: Geiger counter

      Post by Phil23 »

      The DB25 Interface converter in the toolbox brings back memories...
      Oh to be back in the days of which is DTE or DCE, and which needs to hook to what, DTR, DSR, RTS, CTS.
      Such a mishmash of standards. Don't miss it at all.

      What is next steps for the Geiger Counter? Does an ESP32 Host sound like the logical direction to take?
      :Now: :Today/Yesterday:

      Image

      Main Station Davis VP2+ Running Via Win10 Pro.
      Secondary Stations, Ecowitt HP2551/GW1000 Via rPi 3 & 4 Running Buster GUI.
      :Local Inverell Ecowitt Station: :Remote Ashford Ecowitt Station:
      User avatar
      HansR
      Posts: 5831
      Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2012 6:53 am
      Weather Station: GW1100 (WS80/WH40)
      Operating System: Raspberry OS/Bullseye
      Location: Wagenborgen (NL)
      Contact:

      Re: Geiger counter

      Post by HansR »

      Hi Phil,
      Phil23 wrote: Wed 29 Jun 2022 9:05 pm The DB25 Interface converter in the toolbox brings back memories...
      Oh to be back in the days of which is DTE or DCE, and which needs to hook to what, DTR, DSR, RTS, CTS.
      Such a mishmash of standards. Don't miss it at all.
      Yes... it got accidentally in the photo :lol:
      Phil23 wrote: Wed 29 Jun 2022 9:05 pm What is next steps for the Geiger Counter? Does an ESP32 Host sound like the logical direction to take?
      Well, the origin of the geiger counter project was that I adopted it as a test for the External Extra Sensor for CumulusUtils. Now I tested it, fixed some bugs and a new release is coming. I'll get back on this in a new post in which I will explain and release a new version.

      And no, I won't do an ESP32 at the moment but you can. The problem is that the ESP is from a code point of view a kind of stranger to me. I do most on the RPi, preferably with C#. I found that the sensors reading is kind of difficult (realtime) on the RPi (under Linux) as it is multiuser, yes the ESP32 would be better at it. But the relation with the CMX machine demands that a datafile is created and sent to the CMX datadirectory from where is is picked up as a normal datafile to create the JSON for the website. I will explain how I did that with Python (based on the small program by Cortmalaw). The ESP32 does things totally different though very efficient agreed. If CMX goes to the ESP ecology, I'll reconsider ;)

      I'll get back on the Cutils topic related to this External sensor in a new post soon.
      This thread is closed afaiac.

      Cheers,
      Hans

      https://meteo-wagenborgen.nl
      CMX build 4017+ ● RPi 3B+ ● Raspbian Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l ● dotnet 8.0.3
      Phil23
      Posts: 884
      Joined: Sat 16 Jul 2016 11:59 pm
      Weather Station: Davis VP2+ & GW1000 (Standalone)
      Operating System: Win10 Pro / rPi Buster
      Location: Australia

      Re: Geiger counter

      Post by Phil23 »

      HansR wrote: Thu 30 Jun 2022 6:16 pm The problem is that the ESP is from a code point of view a kind of stranger to me. I do most on the RPi, preferably with C#.
      But is there not an advantage there in that the Arduino Code is essentially C++.
      That's something an Old Dog like me has been learning over the past week.
      Trying to move my headspace from the MMBasic (PIC32 MX470's) to C & it's foreign syntax.
      I've always said I hated C with a passion, yet now I open my eyes I'm likeing it quite a bit.
      I found that the sensors reading is kind of difficult (realtime) on the RPi (under Linux) as it is multiuser, yes the ESP32 would be better at it.
      Yes, I've briefly looked at accessin Pi GPIO's, & I found it a daunting & lost interest before starting.
      In Arduino I found it simple & direct for basic pin commands. Reading Sensors; I've relied on Libraries (I know your thoughts on that), but I can to an extent read inside them & change later if needed.
      But the relation with the CMX machine demands that a datafile is created and sent to the CMX datadirectory from where is is picked up as a normal datafile to create the JSON for the website.
      Have chewed that part over a fair bit in my mind & come to the conclusion that the best option there is to present the data in a JSON at a URL on the device.
      Exactly as the AirLink & AQM3 does, which actually has /, /dust, /v1/current_conditions, /aqnow & as I recently found /calib_CO2.
      Url's like that are already readable by CMX for the airlink; not sure if you do it yourself as well in Utils.
      Other primitive option I use is curl to pull the JSON & save it as a file.

      Code: Select all

      @Echo %Time% Retreiving Json Data from AirLink
      @C:\CumulusMX\Scripts\Curl "http://192.168.59.236/v1/current_conditions" --silent --output C:\CumulusMX\Scripts\AirLink.txt
      @C:\CumulusMX\Scripts\Curl "http://192.168.59.237/aqnow" --silent --output C:\CumulusMX\Scripts\Aqm_Out.html
      @C:\CumulusMX\Scripts\Curl "http://192.168.59.238/aqnow" --silent --output C:\CumulusMX\Scripts\Aqm_In.html
      
      Gives me a simple way of putting their output directly on my site, http://weather.inverellit.com/Aqm_In.html
      The ESP32 does things totally different though very efficient agreed. If CMX goes to the ESP ecology, I'll reconsider ;)
      Do what I've been doing.... :D
      Currently have an ESP hanging off my lounge chair laptop.
      Over the last weeks evenings I've been turning Blink into a Monster as I get my head around C.
      It's now got functions with a for loop, some serial debug output & even OTA.

      On the list to do is Blink without delay, sensor reading, (done in another script already for CCS811),
      Debug output to Telnet port for essentially a serial monitor without USB connection.
      It's mostly coming easily, and with understanding as I go.

      Cheers


      PS. Like yourself, I spent two mornings beating my head against the wall on the "No OTA Ports" issue....
      Ultimately resolved it with a reboot of my Laptop. :bash:
      :Now: :Today/Yesterday:

      Image

      Main Station Davis VP2+ Running Via Win10 Pro.
      Secondary Stations, Ecowitt HP2551/GW1000 Via rPi 3 & 4 Running Buster GUI.
      :Local Inverell Ecowitt Station: :Remote Ashford Ecowitt Station:
      User avatar
      HansR
      Posts: 5831
      Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2012 6:53 am
      Weather Station: GW1100 (WS80/WH40)
      Operating System: Raspberry OS/Bullseye
      Location: Wagenborgen (NL)
      Contact:

      Re: Geiger counter

      Post by HansR »

      Hi Phil,

      The goal of why I got involved with the geiger counter may have been a bit obfuscated by the time I got it running, but the essence is that I want to create the possibility for CUtils to have any sensor a user may come up with, to be charted automatically after configuration. That means that I just define the interface to any - whatever type - sensor. It will be the users responsibility to comply to that interface in any way he/she wants.

      I used the geiger counter as a test. Nothing more.

      So if you comply with an ESP32 it is fine, you may use whichever other single board computer or mini device or any configuration of scripts you can think of and any technique you wish to use. As long as the CSV file with the data end up in the data directory of CMX and you configure CUtils accordingly everything is OK.

      I will describe my example in the next post but the essence is that a CSV file is created to feed CUtils with data for that external sensor. And I named it External Extra Sensors to emphasize the sensor lies outside the CMX/CUtils system : it is not being logged by CMX, it is not recognized by CMX it is just completely unknown to the preprogrammed possibilities of the system. And yet, when configured correctly the sensor blends in with the existing sensors and the chart can be combined with other Plot Variables.

      Note this is not limited to the CUtils website but it is a feature of the ExtraSensors module / ChartsCompiler which will generate the charts. The charts can be used independently in any website.

      I hope this explains why the ESP32 is just a user choice, just as the RPi is my choice. You may ignore my choice, but you can't ignore my interface if you wish to chart other sensors. I have nothing to say about the world outside the interface to CMX/CUtils.

      Cheers,
      Hans

      https://meteo-wagenborgen.nl
      CMX build 4017+ ● RPi 3B+ ● Raspbian Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l ● dotnet 8.0.3
      Cortmalaw
      Posts: 92
      Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020 2:21 pm
      Weather Station: Davis
      Operating System: Raspbian
      Location: Near Glasgow, Scotland, UK

      Re: Geiger counter

      Post by Cortmalaw »

      Well done Hans on making so much progress since I was last reminded to check back here!

      One thing I notice is that you still seem to have a suspiciously low background radiation count.

      In the photo, I don't see a 10nF blocking capacitor in the Pi the data connection wire between Geiger board and Pi. I wonder if that's the cause? Or else you have a very low sensitivity tube.

      The 10nF value is not critical (1nF or 100nF would do). What it does is block any DC voltage, leaving only the desired signal and preventing overwhelming the Pi GPIO with a fixed 'high' value. It would be at least interesting to see what happens if you add one.
      User avatar
      HansR
      Posts: 5831
      Joined: Sat 20 Oct 2012 6:53 am
      Weather Station: GW1100 (WS80/WH40)
      Operating System: Raspberry OS/Bullseye
      Location: Wagenborgen (NL)
      Contact:

      Re: Geiger counter

      Post by HansR »

      Cortmalaw wrote: Sun 28 Aug 2022 7:17 pm Well done Hans on making so much progress since I was last reminded to check back here!

      One thing I notice is that you still seem to have a suspiciously low background radiation count.
      Well, I did make an estimate for myself:
      [Edit 20 spetember 2022]: The original calculation was (completely) wrong so I rewrote this part.
      1. The background radiation for the Netherlands is 1.6 mSv/yr == 1600 µSv/yr (source). This comprises all sources: comic, soil, food, habitat (houses).
      2. From the link I gave here I saw that 1 click/min (1 cpm) equals 0.008120 µSv/h for the J305 tube
      3. So 1 click is appr 72 µSv/year
      4. For my 1.5 - 2 cpm I come to a background radiation of 140 µSv/year which is roughly 10 times less than the estimation in point 1.
      5. My geiger counter is in the attic, protected from outside and in the dark (may later be placed in the Stevenson Screen) and seems to have to be tuned up a bit.
      Cortmalaw wrote: Sun 28 Aug 2022 7:17 pm In the photo, I don't see a 10nF blocking capacitor in the Pi the data connection wire between Geiger board and Pi. I wonder if that's the cause? Or else you have a very low sensitivity tube.

      The 10nF value is not critical (1nF or 100nF would do). What it does is block any DC voltage, leaving only the desired signal and preventing overwhelming the Pi GPIO with a fixed 'high' value. It would be at least interesting to see what happens if you add one.
      I did not do any electronics around it, just followed the standard info and my calculations as above. I think the tube voltage may be adjusted a bit but in general I assume it is OK.

      You state in your post there is no documentation. In my kit however there was some info, a website link and a github link: So for the moment I am happy with what I see. It is an uncalibrated geiger counter but afaics the counts are not unreasonable, even if there was a plus/minus factor 10 of the background radiation: if something would really kick it it would be noticed.
      Hans

      https://meteo-wagenborgen.nl
      CMX build 4017+ ● RPi 3B+ ● Raspbian Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l ● dotnet 8.0.3
      Post Reply