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Editing the web tags Wiki page

Please use this Forum to make suggestions for the future updates additions and general maintenance of the Wiki. Since I am sure most of these will be valid suggestions, so as they are completed in the Wiki the Topic will be deleted from this Forum, and this will act as reminder to anyone updating the Wiki of the jobs still to be done.

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Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by sfws »

water01 wrote: Tue 24 May 2022 8:47 am it was pointed out to me I had missed some new webtags.
The current https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Webtags is missing all the new tags since version 3.12.0 beta build 3134.
I did one major redesign of "web tags" when I split off page explaining parameters!
It now needs someone to volunteer to replace the long complicated existing page with something easier to read/search?

I don't have time for any further redesign, I had 4 ideas for what else could be done, although none of the ideas seemed ideal solution:
1) legacy web tags and MX web tags on separate pages (like I did with Cumulus.ini) now that MX has moved away from the legacy web page arrangement,
2) tags could be listed alphabetically as in the file that Water01 updates
3) there could be separate pages by type of tag (temperature, wind, rain, pressure, etc.)
4) or maybe there should be separate pages for each time interval (current, recent history, daily, monthly, yearly, all time)?

Hopefully, someone out there has their own ideas on how to redesign/replace the complicated existing page, and the time to implement their idea, including adding all the newer tag names.
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by HansR »

Yes, this is an important and a large page which indeed could do with some rewriting (split up in smaller parts).

I think there are people who are better equipped than I am both with respect to language as to usage and knowledge of the Webtags (I hardly use those), but if nobody picks up this responsibility, I promise to pick this up after summer (I only recognize astronomical summer).

I suggest to make the Webtags page a dispatch page to the content which I would split in things like theory, technique, parameters, classification, programming etc... and yes of course the listing (according to that classification). Maybe even dispatch pages below the main Webtags page e.g. to split up the listings when useful/necessary. Even if somebody else would take his/her responsibility I [c/w]ould cooperate in sub projects when the dispatch page is ready.

For the time being, this original page should be kept to be accessed through the new dispatcher without the possibility to be modified. When the work is finished and everybody is used to it that page should be moved to an archive of historical pages out of the range of regular pages (so the search feature should not acces these pages to avoid confusion).
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by sfws »

HansR,
Thank you for sensible supporting words, and for offer to contribute.
I fully support your suggestion that it would make sense for several people to co-operate on any Wiki update project. I don't know how many new web tags have been added, the topic I quoted does not say, but MX changes are likely to continue at a rapid rate, so there will be an ongoing task!

It would make sense, particularly if such a team includes people who use the tags in MQTT, SQL, API, .json, .php, and their many other contexts outside "Cumulus templates".
You will find you now have same Wiki functionality available as I do, so you can add write access for anyone willing to take the lead, or just help out, but watch out for the constant spammers!
HansR wrote: Sun 05 Jun 2022 12:53 pm I suggest to make the Webtags page a dispatch page to the content which I would split in things like theory, technique, parameters, classification, programming etc... and yes of course the listing (according to that classification). Maybe even dispatch pages below the main Webtags page e.g. to split up the listings when useful/necessary. Even if somebody else would take his/her responsibility I [c/w]ould cooperate in sub projects when the dispatch page is ready.

For the time being, this original page should be kept to be accessed through the new dispatcher without the possibility to be modified. When the work is finished and everybody is used to it that page should be moved to an archive of historical pages out of the range of regular pages (so the search feature should not acces these pages to avoid confusion).
A few thoughts in response to above comments:
a) At the moment the Wiki is still supporting a large minority of people still using the legacy Cumulus, so any rewriting needs to still offer somewhere for those users.
b) The old page can be renamed and preserved as I did in this preserved page.
c) Based on my long experience with Wiki, I would strongly suggest rename that old page first, then create a new page with old name, so the links to existing page within old posts in this forum continue to work. The new page with old name can have link to renamed old page and to another new page (dispatcher in your terminology).
d) Given that Web tags are now used in MQTT, SQL, API, and many other contexts outside "Cumulus templates", it might make sense on that new dispatcher page and subsequent new pages to use a new terminology "Cumulus tags"?
e) Other than that, all decisions are for future contributors!
f) I suspect people would be happy if your new dispatcher page that will gradually have further links added, and appropriate text changes as the new pages are produced, ends up similar to your page.
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by HansR »

OK. As I said I will start doing things end of summer.
Are you reachable by PM or email?
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by HansR »

@sfws:
I am starting work on the Webtags page.

First step is to move the page to "Webtags (preserving history)".
First question going with that action: should I "Leave a redirect behind"? What exactly does that do? In my idea that would mean that typing in Webtags it would still go to that old page. So what happens when I create a new Webtags page?

NOTE: I did not complete the action waiting to be sure what the redirect does.
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by sfws »

Don't direct general Wiki questions to me, as you have discovered with your contributions, I was able to contribute text to Wiki with almost no understanding of how it works.

That said I suspect that your guess is right; creating a redirect does mean old page name is retained with sole purpose of causing page under new name to be loaded.

When I started contributing to the Wiki, there were other contributors but we basically worked independently. The Wiki is out of date mainly because MX changes so rapidly, but me not having time to do much editing also means that I don't have time to help anyone else.

I suggested in point d) of my earlier post, best to abandon "webtags" name, and create a new Wiki page called Cumulus tags, but you are free to make your own decisions.
If you do use a new page name, your choice on redirect does not matter. I hope that allows you to continue, but again I did suggest that you try to get a new team so you are able to get contributions from people using tags for SQL, MQTT, HTTP, etc. There is a lot of work ahead!
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by jlmr731 »

Just want to second that Cumulus Tags sound better, and seems to be a better descriptive
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by HansR »

Cumulus Tags may seem like a better descriptive but to carry that change not only is a formidable disruption with the past, it is also a major edit in the wiki changing that word everywhere you find it. Not only where it is linked (currently all links are to Webtags where the user finds the old page in one of the first lines. If in the end I choose to change the wording it will be an overseeable action.

So in short: in first instance the term Webtag remains, correctness and completeness of content goes first. When done I will look at what it takes to change the term as a separate edit.

But @jlmr731: if you are willing to take up to rewrite other parts in a coordinated fashion (it sometimes is a chain reaction, it will be with the Webtag pages) you are welcome. Read the Wiki and decide on what triggers you best.
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by sfws »

Thank you for starting the rewriting task.
HansR wrote: Sat 24 Sep 2022 4:01 am it is also a major edit in the wiki changing that word everywhere you find it. Not only where it is linked
...
I will look at what it takes to change the term as a separate edit
Actually this will be a minor task. The Wiki provides a global editing function. It is called Replace Text and can be used with either links to a whole page, or with subsection-links, as well as for other purposes.

Should you (or anybody else) later choose to change page name, Replace Text can list all the references to the old name and given you option of either in one operation replacing all links to old name with new name, or of editing them individually.
HansR wrote: Sat 24 Sep 2022 4:01 am Cumulus Tags may seem like a better descriptive but to carry that change not only is a formidable disruption with the past
Actually, I think again you are being over-cautious.
As it advises here be bold. Go ahead—make changes. There is also a link to that help page on the main page of the Cumulus Wiki.

In response to (originally) a suggestion by Freddie, much previously existing content in the Wiki have been moved into different pages with totally new names (a few examples: MX on linux, Amending dayfile, First run of MX, Reports folder, Calculate missing values, Correcting extremes, Preparing your Linux computer for MX). Much of that content was on other pages (including the page "Cumulus MX" originally created by Mark that is now just a redirect). Some might regard it as a formidable disruption with the past when https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Monthly_log_files was split three ways into https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Standard_log_files, https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Extra_Sensor_Files, and https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Month.ini, none of those retaining original name. Even before the new collection of pages had been around for a while, there were no complaints. It certainly made it easier to later create https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Monthlyalltime.ini and then https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Air_Link_Log.txt!

Those of us who were using Cumulus 1 did experience significant terminology changes (e.g. the Log became Weather diary). Steve Loft can hardly be praised for displaying consistency. Cumulus was initiated on 27th January 2004, and forum posts prior to 2008 are no longer available so I don't recall now when "web tags" terminology was first used, but the original Wiki page was not originally created with the name "webtags".

Even after Mark became developer for MX, consistency has not been perfect. A possibly trivial example is that the words "user interface", changed to "admin interface", and now "dashboard interface" or other variants, but I'm sure there are many other examples.
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Re: Editing the web tags Wiki page

Post by HansR »

@sfws: Thanks for the advise but now that I started this job I prefer to do it my way. I will communicate what and how I do it when I think that is necessary. And don't worry: I am bolder than you apparently think.

We have a history of something like miscommunication and, unless the contents I write becomes truly erratic and correction seems far away, I would prefer you stay out of the job you so gladly left to others. You do not wish to communicate in any other way than the forum, i.s.o. PM or email, so this message goes here.
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