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Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

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grumpazoid
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 26 Oct 2009 9:35 am
Weather Station: fine offset wh1080
Operating System: Windows 10

Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by grumpazoid »

Hi

In the past I have helped my local sailing club set up cumulus mx with their fine offset based weather station.
Things are now starting to fall apart and we are looking to invest in something new. Having searched the forums I can't find any recent topics on this subject. I have of course seen the wiki on supported models.
We had started to consider the Davis Vantage Vue, but then realized (if I am not mistaken) that more money is needed to buy extra software and a data logger module.

I would be pleased to hear recommendations and opinions based on currently available models.
Are the Davis units worth the extra expense or is there a newer version of the fine offset that is better value for money?

Thanks
Roopz

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dazza1223
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun 25 Jan 2015 8:41 pm
Weather Station: Davis Vantage Pro 2
Operating System: Raspberry pi 3 b+
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by dazza1223 »

hi yes thay are and i hade one well the vue for 5 years and it been so good but im selling mine now and the spere iss with it as i paid £230 for it but if ur looking for a burgen then have the lote £300 but it dosnt come with the data loger
Have fun and keep learning

dazza :D

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galfert
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 03 May 2016 2:57 pm
Weather Station: Ecowitt GW1000
Operating System: Mint, Raspberry Pi OS, Synology
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by galfert »

For a sailing club I would recommend the Davis Vantage Pro 2, no console, and a WeatherLink Live. You can then continue to use your Cumulus MX system.

But if that is too much over budget then consider a Fine Offset clone with GW1000. I don't know where you are located as that will determine which is the best way to get a new Fine Offset clone. Do realize that you are coming from a WH1080 and that is several generations old now and Fine Offset stations have greatly been improved. Amazing that your Fine Offset lasted about 11 years.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge RPI | CumulusMX on Synology NAS
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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grumpazoid
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 26 Oct 2009 9:35 am
Weather Station: fine offset wh1080
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by grumpazoid »

Many thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

I am based in the UK.

Am I correct in saying Weatherlink live is the datalogger?

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galfert
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 03 May 2016 2:57 pm
Weather Station: Ecowitt GW1000
Operating System: Mint, Raspberry Pi OS, Synology
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by galfert »

Yes WeatherLink Live is the data logger. It receives the RF signal from the sensors, stores data to then upload it to Weatherlink.com. Then from Weatherlink.com you can send the data to WU and CWOP. The WeatherLink Live will also provide live data on the local network (Ethernet or WiFi) to any other device (PC, Raspberry Pi... etc.) that can then run Cumulus MX (and other software). If you plan on running Cumulus MX, that would be a better way (direct and faster) to upload to WU and to CWOP than using Weatherlink.com. The WeatherLink Live will also provide live data to a mobile device running Weatherlink app (on LAN). No Weatherlink.com subscription plan necessary to get live data on local network. Subscription plan required for data history on Weatherlink.com.

Since you are in the UK check out Prodata Weather Systems:
https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/
Last edited by galfert on Thu 14 Jan 2021 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge RPI | CumulusMX on Synology NAS
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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grumpazoid
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 26 Oct 2009 9:35 am
Weather Station: fine offset wh1080
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by grumpazoid »

@galfert Many thanks for your excellent explanation. This is very helpful

Regards
Roopz

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PaulMy
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun 28 Sep 2008 11:54 pm
Weather Station: Davis VP2+ Cumulus1 / CummulusMX
Operating System: Windows8 / Windows10
Location: Komoka, ON Canada
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Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by PaulMy »

Am I correct in saying Weatherlink live is the datalogger?
Subscription plan required for data history on Weatherlink.com.
Just so that there is no misunderstanding; the Weatherlink Live physically is not actually a datalogger, but a receiver and all data is uploaded to Weatherlink.com from where current data is displayed. The WL.com Basic (free) plan displays the current trends and charts but not any past/historical data or charts. The Pro plan provides access to all historical data and charts. If you are running CumulusMX with WLL and the WL.com Pro plan then CumulusMX will catch up the historical data from WL.com after a shut down and restart. If you are on the Basic plan CumulusMX will access the WLL live data only so no catch up while CumulusMX was not running.

The free Weatherlink App shows current data and trend charts.

Enjoy,
Paul

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galfert
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 03 May 2016 2:57 pm
Weather Station: Ecowitt GW1000
Operating System: Mint, Raspberry Pi OS, Synology
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by galfert »

PaulMy wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 4:13 pm
Am I correct in saying Weatherlink live is the datalogger?
Subscription plan required for data history on Weatherlink.com.
Just so that there is no misunderstanding; the Weatherlink Live physically is not actually a datalogger
How exactly is it not a datalogger?
... but a receiver and all data is uploaded to Weatherlink.com from where current data is displayed.
Sounds like it is doing the same thing a data logger does. Collects data for later uploading to WL.com. Granted the WLL does do more than just collect data for later uploading...as it is more than a regular logger because it is able to receive data. A WLL is therefore a combination of a receiver and a logger....like marrying an Envoy with a data logger.

What you can't do is use a WLL in the place where you would use another logger in physical connection with the console, as they interface completely differently. That doesn't mean it isn't a logger. The WLL does not need the console and it doesn't need the Envoy.
Last edited by galfert on Thu 14 Jan 2021 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge RPI | CumulusMX on Synology NAS
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Tele-Pole flag pole

Cortmalaw
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020 2:21 pm
Weather Station: Davis
Operating System: Raspbian
Location: Near Glasgow, Scotland, UK

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by Cortmalaw »

galfert wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 5:03 pm
How exactly is it not a datalogger?
By definition, a datalogger would store the data locally. The weatherlink Live doesn't do that - it needs a permanent internet connection to upload to store on the website. If your internet goes down, you lose data - which is what a datalogger is designed to avoid.

To an extent, you avoid that if you are running CumulusMX locally - then you are secure as long as your local devices are working.

It's a sad omission really - the ancient Fine Offset was regularly available from Maplin for £30 and had built-in datalogging which would retain maybe the last 6 weeks (depending on log frequency) of data locally, and Cumulus MX automatically retrieved it when reconnected using the "Catch-up" function. Beats me why Davis have omitted this abilty from >£1000 setups.

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galfert
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 03 May 2016 2:57 pm
Weather Station: Ecowitt GW1000
Operating System: Mint, Raspberry Pi OS, Synology
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by galfert »

We are talking about the Davis WLL and not Fine Offset.

You are misinformed about the WLL. The WLL does not need to say connected to the Internet. It does have logging capabilities. I recommend reading this great writeup on the Davis WLL and its capabilities:
https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/weatherlink-live.htm
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge RPI | CumulusMX on Synology NAS
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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PaulMy
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun 28 Sep 2008 11:54 pm
Weather Station: Davis VP2+ Cumulus1 / CummulusMX
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Location: Komoka, ON Canada
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Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by PaulMy »

The historical data collected by WLL is not available to a weather program unless you have a WL.com Pro plan!

Enjoy,
Paul

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galfert
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 03 May 2016 2:57 pm
Weather Station: Ecowitt GW1000
Operating System: Mint, Raspberry Pi OS, Synology
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by galfert »

Okay that is an important distinction. I still don't see how that does not qualify the WLL as a logger. It may not be a logger to other applications but it is a logger to WL.com.

Today anyone can efficiently run a Raspberry Pi and configure a reasonable battery backup solution so that you can manage a power outage. You can even run a Raspberry Pi off of solar power and a battery bank. A bit more effort but some of the advantages of the WLL are welcome.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge RPI | CumulusMX on Synology NAS
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Cortmalaw
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020 2:21 pm
Weather Station: Davis
Operating System: Raspbian
Location: Near Glasgow, Scotland, UK

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by Cortmalaw »

galfert wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 5:34 pm
You are misinformed about the WLL. The WLL does not need to say connected to the Internet. It does have logging capabilities. I recommend reading this great writeup on the Davis WLL and its capabilities:
https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/weatherlink-live.htm
Thank you @galfert for correcting my misunderstanding. It results from reading information like the reference you quoted which is not best worded - it makes no mention whatsoever of internal data storage or logging, instead emphasising that its role is to pass data to the cloud storage

But https://www.davisinstruments.com/weatherlinklive/ makes the truth clear: it says:

Never lose data
Automatically store data on the WeatherLink Cloud, safeguarded from a Wi-Fi outage with internal auxiliary memory, and from power loss by redundant battery backup.

As for whether it will pass that logged data to Cumulus (or only to the online service) I do not know.

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galfert
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 03 May 2016 2:57 pm
Weather Station: Ecowitt GW1000
Operating System: Mint, Raspberry Pi OS, Synology
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by galfert »

The WeatherLink Live API documentation is public. It has no means for an application to get archive data:
https://weatherlink.github.io/weatherli ... local-api/

But Weatherlink.com does provide this historical archive data to any willing application. But this requires a paid subscription for this feature:
https://weatherlink.github.io/v2-api/api-reference

It is $50 / year subscription for the Pro account....seems reasonable enough. But I can understand the displeasure in another subscription.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge RPI | CumulusMX on Synology NAS
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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prodata
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat 05 Feb 2011 7:13 pm
Weather Station: VP2
Operating System: Windows - all flavours
Location: Littleport, East Cambs, UK

Re: Help with choosing a new weather station for 2021

Post by prodata »

The traditional picture of a VP2 console + logger (working together) provides 4 functions:

1. A receiver for the wireless (or cabled) sensor transmissions from the ISS;

2. Computing various derived values from the raw data such as 2 min or 10 min mean wind speed, daily rainfall etc etc

3. Providing an interface and an API to one other item of computer equipment that wants to access the data

4. At user-configurable intervals of 1-120 minutes creating a summary record of weather over the past interval and storing up to 2560 such records of historical data in a tightly defined binary format for download to another device on request.

WLL replicates stages 1-3 of this process but not stage 4. However, WLL does add some important extra features that a standard console+logger cannot do (at least, not on its own):

a. Receives from ANY combination of transmitters on all 8 available wireless channels (the standard VP2 console is (much) more limited in its receive capabilities across multiple channels);

b. Can pass data to multiple (well, at least 2 or 3) local computers connected at the same time;

c. Will upload current weather data to weatherlink.com (at the same time as (b));

d. Can queue (ie store) data uploads to weatherlink.com if the network/Internet connection goes down. This is the WLL storage capability but it is different from the historical records generation in 4 above. This queued data is not available to download to local computers.

So, WLL and the legacy loggers have overlapping but distinct features. Overall, WLL is more powerful and does not require a console, but is a different concept to the console/logger. WLL does rely on external computers generating summary/historical records, but in one way this is inevitable - if WLL can receive from up to 8 ISS units then it would be literally impossible to fit all this data into the traditional summary record format, which can only cater for one ISS unit. This is why there has had to be a change in approach to historical data.

It's a bit of an unhelpful semantic debate IMHO as to whether WLL is a data logger or not - it is in some respects but maybe not in others. But it doesn't really matter as long as one is clear about its features and capabilities.
John Dann
Prodata Weather Systems
Littleport, East Cambs, UK
http://www.weatherstations.co.uk

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